Seeking art

[brynndragon]

I have been inspired to get for myself some artwork of the only female paladin that ever graced this earth[1], Joan of Arc. Finding such is proving to be surprisingly difficult - I'd be perfectly satisfied with a simple poster, but I haven't found any artwork that is really appealing as of yet other than this Wikipedia image which started my search (I blame finding_rowan). I really want the image to be of her in armor (by which I mean real armor, not chainmail-bikini crap; thankfully almost all of the images of her in armor are not prey to that sort of stupidity) being all knightly and stuff. If you have any suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

[1] AFAIK; if there are others, please let me know. Also some people argue that she was really a genetic male with testicular feminization but frankly her breasts just don't seem large enough.

Comments

[popetom.livejournal.com]

Anything in here look good?

-PT

[dragontdc.livejournal.com]

I've always liked the Scherrer, (I'm a big fan of the Pre-Raphaelites) but that engraving by an unknown artist is very poignant, too.

[catya.livejournal.com]

Hm. Would Boudicca count? Or am I broadening 'paladin' too much?

[brewergnome.livejournal.com]

Well she *was* a warrior queen, but probably doesn't qualify as a *holy* warrior the way a paladin does...

Good idea though.

I can neither think of another, nor find another in history. In fact, I have found several mentions of Joan de Arc as the only true female paladin, sadly.

There must be another female holy warrior somewhere, right?

[catya.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure if that isn't just our bias about what 'holy' means - i sure bet she thought she was fighting for her god/s and her people?

I think Joan de Arc is the only Christian female paladin, but i'm not sure that actually makes her the only one :)

[brewergnome.livejournal.com]

I think the problem is less the definition of "holy" and more that we're short on cultures that had female warriors of any sort and also have an extant historical record.

It's rather... limiting.

Boudica

[emerlion.livejournal.com]

I would bet she certainly saw herself as holy. Back In The Day, the Iceni, along with all the other Brythonic tribes (not to mention the Romans), did not separate religion from State. In fact tribal leaders (including the Romans) saw their leader as Divinely Chosen (if not divine themselves).

What a horrible paragraph that was. Too early. More coffee.

Re: Boudica

[brewergnome.livejournal.com]

I think there's a difference between being holy and fighting for God(ess)(s). But maybe that's my own interpretation.

While the Caesars definately fall under the category of "holy" I would personally never classify them as "paladins."

Re: Boudica

[emerlion.livejournal.com]

True, I would agree with you on this. "Paladin" is a fairly specific Medieval Christian concept though, referring exclusively to a Knight on a holy mission from God. I was using the term more for the meaning that I think Brynndragon is looking for.

Re: Boudica

[brewergnome.livejournal.com]

I think the idea of warriors for Gods have existed in other cultures, even if not quite the Christian conception therein.

The concept of geasa, for example is a very old one.

Re: Boudica

[emerlion.livejournal.com]

Agreed. I was referring specifically to the word "Paladin".

Re: Boudica

[benndragon.livejournal.com]

In my head, paladins can't be rulers. I can't tell if this is because separation of church and state is that deeply ingrained into my psyche or if I consider each job far too specialized with insufficient overlap (how can you personally fight battles according to the wishes of your God/dess/e/s if you need to make sure your people don't starve?). I've also discovered that I think of paladins as being devoted to a single deity (even in a polytheistic society they pick one to serve) despite having very much enjoyed The Deed of Paksenarrion - but even there a paladin who serves more than one of the deities is unique.

I'll have to think about it more.

Re: Boudica

[emerlion.livejournal.com]

Well that's true - Palladins are too busy following God to worry themselves with mundane things like ruling. :-) In fact the word comes from the Roman "Palatine" - basically, a bureaucrat, a chamberlain to the Emperor.

I was thinking more of Spiritual leader/Warrior, as opposed to religious/god-focused warrior.

Re: Boudica

[benndragon.livejournal.com]

I think the problem isn't defining "holy" but defining "warrior". The paladin works outside the standard state-based military hierarchy because they can't offer the sort of loyalty expected of a soldier of the state. Instead they generally serve in a military wing of a religious organization of their deity (temple/priest guards and the Knights Templar come to mind) if they're not a variant of the knight errant (I think JdA falls into this category - she did lead an army, but she didn't rise through the ranks or start with a noble rank IIRC).

[brewergnome.livejournal.com]

No good suggestions.

I did find this

http://www.the11thhour.com/archives/101999/features/shiningarmor1.html

Though, which is kinda cool.

[benndragon.livejournal.com]

Wow, that is cool. Particularly how clearly they make the connection between all of these character and Joan of Arc - they all have some variation of "voices in my head" as well as major ass-kicking ability. Which has the unfortunate side effect of depicting strong women as inherently crazy (ala Rambo and other PTSD-burdened male superheroes, but when the pickings are so slim it's a bit disturbing).

[pezzonovante.livejournal.com]

You're probably more likely to find something searching for the french version of her name (Jeanne d'Arc) than the english version, especially since she's the patron saint of France.

[etherial.livejournal.com]

I like this.

[doctorellisdee.livejournal.com]

mulan?

or do tranvestitic achievements not count?

[benndragon.livejournal.com]

Actually I think JdA counts as tranvestitic achievements (although you could argue that her gender was known, just not particularly obvious on the battlefield). But there isn't any "holy warrior" aspect to Hua Mu Lan, she just kicked ass and took names out of a sense of filial duty. So she's not much of a paladin, but she does hit one of my other archetypes: "the girl who would be a prince" (well, except she turned down the government position to have a family, but no one's perfect ;P).

[divineseduction.livejournal.com]

I don't know quite what you're looking for, but here are the ones that caught my eye...

http://members.aol.com/neyretfreres/jeanne.jpg

http://www.allposters.com/-sp/Jeanne-d-Arc-Sarah-Bernhardt-Posters_i395828_.htm

http://www.art.com/asp/sp-asp/_/pd--11846926/Monument_de_Jeanne_dArc_Joan_of_Arc.htm

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Portrait_jeanne_d'arc.jpg (not quite my thing, but still nice-ish)

http://historymedren.about.com/od/picturegalleries/ig/Joan-of-Arc-Picture-Gallery/index.htm - a small gallery of images

http://www.vialin.com/jeannelapucelle/jeanneinarmor1612.html - I rather like this one, actually

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/record/23/17/26c.gif - a bit fanciful, but not horrible

http://www.jehanne-darc.com/ - I like the front image, but no armor, per se. The content of the site is slightly strange, though..

That's all I've got, so far. Hopefully not all of them were repetitions of what you've already found. :)

[damhan-alluidh.livejournal.com]

http://www.3dtotal.com/ffa/tutorials/max/joanofarc/joanmenu.asp

Made me laugh.
A 3d tutorial. I think I did this one, actually.. years ago.