Part of what you're saying, though, is equivalent to complaining that a blind person can't read an ordinary book by themself. Some people don't get nonverbal cues, and in some cases it's really not clear that they're any more able to learn nonverbal cues than a blind person is able to read an ordinary book.
And asking doesn't always get answers, in my experience. So that's not a trivial solution either.
In your case, since you don't get non-verbal cues, you'll need to use your verbal skills a lot more frequently. It sucks, it's annoying, but if you want to be responsible for your actions rather than fobbing them off on a social disorder it's something you'll need to do. In the end, it boils down to do you feel bad if your actions have made someone uncomfortable and take steps to try to see that future actions don't make them or someone else uncomfortable (it'd be nice if the first bit automatically lead to the second bit, but it doesn't). If you do, then you're a nice guy, but if you don't you're heading towards Nice Guy territory. This is part of why asking is important even if you don't get a clear answer - even if the answer isn't clear you at least communicate *your* intent, which fulfills your responsibility. It's all about respecting and treating another person as a human being. Not a sex toy, not a goddess, but a human being.
BTW, if the answer to "does this make you uncomfortable" (or a variant on that theme) isn't clear, treat it as if the answer was "yes". You'll save yourself a lot of grief that way.
These days, I do do more or less what you're suggesting.
I still think you're being pretty damn insensitive, though, and perhaps not realizing the magnitude of the problem. Verbal expression of finding someone attractive at all can make some people uncomfortable, as far as I can tell. Furthurmore, I resent other people attributing my lack of understanding of all of this in the past to malice rather than ignorance.
It's also problematic when I get third party reports of having made someone uncomfortable, with no details of exactly who I made uncomfortable, even when I ask. Have you ever had people demand that you stop making some unspecified person in some vague large social group uncomfortable by doing some thing which is also not precisely explained to you?
Look, the world sucks for everyone. You have NVLD, the person sitting next to you is on Wellbutrin so they can get out of bed in the morning, the person on your other side is taking melatonin so they can get to sleep at night, the person behind you is sticking their finger down their throat after every meal, the person in front of you is wearing a long-sleeved shirt to hide the gash they gave themselves after they got dumped. I'm unimpressed by your complaints about the cross you need to bear, especially when I know people with the same cross who don't seem to have a problem with talking about things if they get confused or are uncertain, much less *not* groping people unless they ask permission first. But it does make me sad that expressing the need for personal responsibility is all it takes to be labeled insensitive.
As for those third parties, tell them that unless they give you information sufficient for you to change your behavior by telling you who has been made uncomfortable and how, the onus for the discomfort is on their shoulders, not yours. Their demands are petty attempts at manipulation as well as expressions of cowardice and should be met with the contempt they deserve (unless you're feeling kind, in which case pity is the proper expression).
BTW, if the answer to "does this make you uncomfortable" (or a variant on that theme) isn't clear, treat it as if the answer was "yes".
I think that's a very good rule. In general people don't have nearly as much of a problem expressing that everything is all fine and good than they do expressing that there is a problem. If they're not comfortable saying that they're comfortable, well then chances are they're not comfortable. Sounds much more obvious when I put it that way, doesn't it? :)
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brynndragon
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Date: 2006-03-24 04:01 pm (UTC)And asking doesn't always get answers, in my experience. So that's not a trivial solution either.
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Date: 2006-03-24 06:14 pm (UTC)BTW, if the answer to "does this make you uncomfortable" (or a variant on that theme) isn't clear, treat it as if the answer was "yes". You'll save yourself a lot of grief that way.
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Date: 2006-03-25 02:49 am (UTC)I still think you're being pretty damn insensitive, though, and perhaps not realizing the magnitude of the problem. Verbal expression of finding someone attractive at all can make some people uncomfortable, as far as I can tell. Furthurmore, I resent other people attributing my lack of understanding of all of this in the past to malice rather than ignorance.
It's also problematic when I get third party reports of having made someone uncomfortable, with no details of exactly who I made uncomfortable, even when I ask. Have you ever had people demand that you stop making some unspecified person in some vague large social group uncomfortable by doing some thing which is also not precisely explained to you?
no subject
Date: 2006-03-26 06:13 pm (UTC)As for those third parties, tell them that unless they give you information sufficient for you to change your behavior by telling you who has been made uncomfortable and how, the onus for the discomfort is on their shoulders, not yours. Their demands are petty attempts at manipulation as well as expressions of cowardice and should be met with the contempt they deserve (unless you're feeling kind, in which case pity is the proper expression).
no subject
Date: 2006-03-27 05:37 pm (UTC)I think that's a very good rule. In general people don't have nearly as much of a problem expressing that everything is all fine and good than they do expressing that there is a problem. If they're not comfortable saying that they're comfortable, well then chances are they're not comfortable. Sounds much more obvious when I put it that way, doesn't it? :)